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HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:03 pm
by rws45user
Hi I have a HHA Optimizer speed dial under my scope . My scope does not have mil dots just cross hair . The rules in the hunter class said no turret turning of the scope. I have marks on the HHA dial for the different yards The rules say nothing about no being able to tilt the outside of the scope . So will I be with in the rules If I use the HHA Optimizer speed dial system .As long as I don't touch the scope and I change the angle of the base only ,will this be allowed as the rules are now .
Why are you forcing a mil dot or some kind of reticle to be used . People that have a cross hair only will have to go out and buy a scope that has markings around the cross hair just to be able to shoot in this class. Why do you consider turning the turrets as not a part of something a hunter would do . I have hunted my whole life with cross hair only and I think most people have done the same .
When did having dots and dashes and lines all over the reticle become something you have to have in a hunter class. This rule of not being allowed to turn your turrets I think is complete wrong because its always been how you adjust your cross hairs . This rule is really unfair to people that have cross hair only scopes and have shot this way for over 40 years . You should really re-think this rule .
Now I have to move my base up and down to keep my cross hairs where they need to be . Is this what you want this class to become ? A class where you can't use the main tool in the scope and you have to rely on marks on the inside of the scope instead of making the hunter use the scope the way it was intended to be used . If you keep this way of thinking ,before long hunters won't know how to adjust their shots by using turrets . I have already heard younger people say when they are talking about scope ,(You know the turning thing on the scope that spins around ) They don't even know what its called . Its sad and your part of it by not allowing the use of(that turning thing ) shame on you rule making people .
Lets just all go by the little dots ,dashes, tiny plus sigh lines running every inch of the view your looking through . Its like using a grid. Mark my words before long the inside of the scope will be a complete grid and every yard will have a cross hair and the shooter will have a chart showing where each yard is on the grid . Is that what you people want . Knowing how many clicks to turn your (turning thing ) in my option is what a hunter should know how to do not go my grid intersections. Its sad really sad its come to this in a hunter class .
I'm just curious ,why the ban on turrets ? Is it because some scope have 1/8 and some have 1/2 moa adjustments so its unfair to the 1/2 moa scope users . Wouldn't it be just as unfair to a 4 dot mil dot user to be shooting against a heavily marked reticle where there is no guess work involved ? Did you stop allowing the use of turrets because the younger people were complaining it was unfair because they could not figure out how to make adjustments and all they knew how to do was go by the little dots they see in the scope and they knew about where the pellet was going to go at different yardages by remembering what dot it was close to ? I can just hear them now , Its not fair you people can turn that thing on the scope and make the pellet hit almost exactly where you want it to go , I don't have time to figure out all that stuff , lets just make everyone go by the little dot thing in the scopes . Can you people not see how sad this is . This is exactly why we are in the shape we are as a nation today ,Judges and rule makers taking the side of doing things the easy way to satisfy the ones not willing to learn the art of shooting with a scope and dumb down process because some are not willing to put in the time and effort to learn the craft . I have read all the rules and there is nothing saying you can't use a adjustable scope mount with a dial attached to move your scopes angle to keep your cross hairs on target ,so if you want to stay away from guessing at mil dots , dashes and other thing etched in glass I would use the HHA dial adjustable base mount and know exactly where your pellet is going to hit at any distance you dial it to . Your sure to blow the doors of the mil-dot shooters. Rule makers , I'm I correct about there not being a rule that you can't use a adjustable scope base with a indicating wheel to mark your distance that is not touching your scope . yes or no please answer .
Sights
A.
Optical sights of any reticle sty
le may be used, but are limited to
a maximum of 12 power magnification. Variable scopes of
greater than 12X must be turned to
the
12X or nearest lower
factory marking on the scope.
B.
No turret adjustment allowed during the match. (No clicking.)
C.
Optical sigh
ts with parallax adjustment may be adjusted so that
the target is in focus. Range (yardage) markings may be used.

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:40 am
by John in Ma
There are two other classes to shoot in that allow you to adjust your scope during the match.

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:04 am
by rws45user
John in Ma I have a question . Lets say you know a scope maker and you have them put a small tiny dot at every yard from 10 to 55 yards on the reticle. Custom dots for your gun and ammo you use and that person won every match . Would you say that would be fair that he has marked on his reticle are at set distances and all he has to do is line the dot up to the target and you have to guess in between dots . I think you would get a little up set knowing you had no chance of winning because he has every yard marked where the pellet is going to hit . This doesn't sound fair does it , and believe me its coming . So whats the difference in clicking to that distance and raising or lowing your rifle to line up the custom dot on your reticle to the target ? Nothing . I guess its going to take someone with this type of reticle winning every time before the people making the rule decides it not fair to have custom reticle on your scope . Do you see what I'm getting at John . Someone is always going to think something is not fair if one person has something thats better and more accurate than anyone else . The adjustable scope mount that lets you dial in your yardage is like a custom reticle you can mark each yard on the tape thats on the dial so you know just where to tilt your scope to make the pellet go where you want it to go and not have to guess .Since its not against the rules and people start using this system do you think its going to be fair if they win every time . If your going to make hunter class fair to everyone that means everyone has to use the same type of scope like a standard 4 dot mildot setup no 1/2 mil dashes ect only 4 mil dots or what ever the rule makes go with but to be fair to all shooters every one needs to be looking at the same reticle or your going to end up with adjustable bases and custom made reticles. Why do you think Hunter class doesn't allow turret adjustments ? Its on every scope made . the only differences is the amount of space between each click . Is that why its not used ? was it unfair that the 1/8 scopes were beating the 1/2 moa scopes so they had to get rid of the turrets use all together ? Well guess what ,now you have unfair reticles , It started off with 4 mil-dots and now its endless marks and dashes and its only going to get more and more unfair until the rule makers finally figure out reticle have to be the same in every scope if they are going to ban the use of the turrets . The best solution is not to ban the use of turrets but to make the spacing between the turrets clicks the same like All turrets must be 1/8 moa.and all reticles limited to 4 mildots only . This would make every scope used and every shooter on the same playing field . Right now its a free for all and your not the better shooter when you win you just have more reference points to place your pellet that others .So the rule makers need to get there Sh-- together and make some rules that keep everyone at the same level as far as scopes go for a start .I'm a bow shooter also and I know all about hunter class. They limit you to 4 pins and they limit you the length of the sight , they limit the stabilizer length from the bow on and on and what this does is it keep every thing fair to all shooters . Making a unlimited Reticle marking your means of pellet placement instead of turret adjustment has made thing far more unfair to all shooters than leaving the turret adjustments as the rule and you people are going to find this out the hard way I guess.

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:09 pm
by John in Ma
I guess US people will just have to wait and see. If you Don't like the rules, form a club, become a member in good standing and propose a rules change to be voted on. Other shooters have come into this sport suggesting rule/format changes to suit there personal ideals/equipment and they don't often last.

I've only been shooting for two years and other than a seemingly relaxed position on enforcing the current rules and regs at major matches it seems to be working just fine.

You also have the option of starting your own league with whatever rules/equipment you deem appropriate.

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:47 pm
by rws45user
I may have typed to many words at one time ,I'll try it again . I'm not taking about individual club rules I was talking about AAFTA rules . If people show up at a AAFTA shoot with a adjustable type scope base Like the HHA Optimizer that angles the base that angles the scope , will they be allowed to shoot in the Hunter class . This is to one of the rule committee members of the AAFTA. Please answer yes or no . Here is a video of the HHA https://youtu.be/MMWmINORovg

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:47 pm
by John in Ma
Page 22, Hunter Division Rules, Shooting Part B: Adjustable components on the stock may not be adjusted during the match.

And more pertinent to your question, same page, Sights, Part B: No turret adjustment allowed during the match(no clicking).

Given these two rules I would deem the use of your HHA Optimizer as a disqualifying act. While you can argue that it's not part of the stock, it does take the place of clicking by moving your cross hairs up or down depending on the range, though by moving the outside of the scope tube instead of the erector tube inside the scope.

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:52 am
by rws45user
Your correct about 2 things #1 Its definitely not part of a stock or a stock adjustment by any means so you can rule that out complete. #2 This system does not adjust the turrets as the rules specify and your not clicking or even coming close to touching the scope . So that rules out turret adjustments . The mil dots and and other markings on the reticle are also taking the place of clicking and the rules are allowing this method of sighting . The rules say nothing about moving the scope itself only that you cannot move the tube inside the scope by use of the turrets . Moving the complete scope as one unit with out adjusting the tube is a completely different setup. Just face the fact that as the rules are written there is no mention of a complete scope base adjustment for aiming not being allowed , and until the rules change and add this method of aiming its just as legal to use it as it is to use a custom mil- dot arrangement in the reticle that is coming soon for field target shooting for every yard from 10 to 55 yards placed where you want them on the reticle. Its like having preset turret clicks right there in the reticle from 10 to 55 yards . The way it works is the tiny square cover the entire glass and you just turn on or light up the squares you want and leave them on until the shoot is over so there is no adjustment of the scopes inside tube during the shoot . If your up in a tree stand and you know how far the pile of corn is and you know thats where the animal is going to stop you have that square lit up . and you can light up as many or a few as you want to see to keep your reticle from being filled with cluster. Its kind of light Nikon's camera's focus points you can see in the view finder . That's what the squares look like in the reticle you turn on . You can set the how many focus points you want to see and be used from 77 to 1. I think its 77 don't hold me to that . But I am still awaiting a official answer from a AAFTA official.

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:05 pm
by rws45user
Why can't I get a yes or no answer from a AAFTA rule maker ? If people show up at a AAFTA shoot with a adjustable type scope base Like the HHA Optimizer that angles the base that angles the scope , will they be allowed to shoot in the Hunter class . This is to one of the rule committee members of the AAFTA. Please answer yes or no . Here is a video of the HHA https://youtu.be/MMWmINORovg

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:50 am
by Chris Berry
No this would not be allowed in Hunter class. The intent of the rules is no clicking or adjustments of the scope other than ranging. This is a new product on the market and we will revisit the wording as the BOG if needed for Hunter rules. In the spirit of the rules is to use holdover in Hunter class. Great news is we have other divisions this would be ok in.
Thanks for sharing.

Re: HHA Optimizer speed dial

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:15 pm
by rws45user
Okay Thanks for the answer .I think it would be a great idea to make the word change . Until I see the wording changed to ( or adjustments of the scope ANGLE other than ranging.) Make sure you add scope ANGLE because this system is not adjusting the scope in any way ,Its changing the angle only . I'll take it as not being against the rules and I will point this out to the people running the shoots . Dial adjustable scope mounts have been around as far back as I can remember and I'm 56 . The HHA gun version was made 4 or 5 years ago and the crossbow version was before that . If anyone likes long range target shooting 100 plus yards and has a springer the crossbow version works great . I have one on my Hatsan 125 sniper 22 cal springer and I'm working on my 300 yard grouping right now and the dial still has a lot of adjustment left . My chairgun program tells me I will still have 125 fps at 400 yards so my goal is to see what kind of grouping I can get at 400 yards . On a angled base system your using a external reference point marking the same way your using the internal markings on the reticle. Your allowing unlimited reticle marking or reference point internally this is just letting you do the same thing only its external markings . This system just lets you use 1 crosshair instead of 50 tiny crosshair's eched in glass . There is absolutely no difference between the two especially if your allowing the parallax to be used as a measuring device. Can't you see there is no difference between picking a tiny crosshair intersection etched in glass placed all over the reticle and tilting a scope to a intersection marked on a tape . Just think of the tape as a external reticle .
I just want to add one thing . As time goes on reticles are going to be filled with indicating marks ,so much so that every yard will have its own dot or intersecting lines based on the 20 fpe limit set by the us field target . So knowing which intersection of cross hairs on the reticle to use to place on the target is the same exact thing your doing when you adjust your turrets . Your also allowing the use of a marked known distance parallax so your not judging the distance using information you have in your reticle which defeats the purpose so there is no difference in turret adjustment and reticle reference points. You putting a 4 mil dot shooter or any shooter that has less reference points at a disadvantage . In hunter class you have to set limits to what can be used to keep all shooters equal. A true hunter class if you don't allow turret adjustments should be made so all reticles are limited to 4 mildots and no markings on the parallax wheel the parallax should be used for a clear picture sight only .In hunting you have to know your targets dimensions and you use the reticle to determine your distance from the target not your parallax wheel. This makes for a level playing field and not for the person with the better scope with unlimited reference points on the scope wins rules you have now . Keep things fair to all shooters put limits on what can be on the reticles. In archery hunter class you have a 4 pin limit this keeps all shooters on the same playing field , a 5 pin shooter would have a huge advantage over a 4 pin shooter because the spacing between the pins would be less and this holds true to the reticle markings on a scope. Just one extra marking can make a big difference and makes things NOT on the same playing field. So limit your reticles to a 4 mildot view and then you will make all shooters equal and a lot more challenging . Having to judge the distance and knowing where to aim by the set distances between the miltots is what hunting class should be all about and not about who's got the best scope wins .