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Hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle marking

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:00 am
by rws45user
Hi. This is to all Hunter class shooters . What are your thoughts on unlimited marking on reticles and marked yardages on the parallax wheel and power of the zoom .At least the power of the zoom has been set so no issues there. As we all know the more you spend on a scope the the more accurate the yardage focusing on the parallax wheel can be . The more markings you have on the reticle the less guess work there is . If a shooter has a standard 6 mil dot scope how much of a disadvantage does he or she have shooting against a reticle filled with cross sections that cover every yard from 10 to 55 . Lets face it the reticles filled with cross sections are all tiny cross hairs and are used to take the place of adjusting the turrets on the scope . Its a legal way to get the same accuracy as turret adjustments in hunter class. In archery hunting classes the rules are made to put shooters on the same playing field . They limit you to only 4 pin . pins are like mil dots on a scope . The use of the number of aiming points is a very important factor in keeping all shooters from gaining a advantage over another shooter so the result is who is the best shot and not who has the best toys . The only way the hunter class is going to be fair to all shooters so you can determine who's the best shot and not who has the best toy is to make all aiming point the same . This way you will get more people involved with the sport because they know the scope they buy will match what everyone else has and that they do stand a chance of winning . Isn't that what you want this sport to evolve into . The other part is the accuracy of the scopes parallax . Doing away with the known yardage and using the parallax to get a clear view only will level out any advantage over more accurate scopes . If you don't know the yardage then it doesn't matter how sharp the view is at distances . To figure out the yardages of the different targets you have to do your home work and figure out the targets size and use your( limited ) marking like 6 mil dots and the targets relative size in the reticle next to the mil dots . So you might be able to see , Power of the zoom ,the number of aiming points and the ability to judge distance would all be the same for all shooters beginners to experts with no advantages . This is what makes people want to shoot . Knowing they have a chance to win on the ability to shoot and not the amount of money they have to spend on the newest and greatest scopes . Here are a few photo of just how ridiculous reticles have become and I think you would have to agree the use in hunter class for those who have not would be at a disadvantage . What do Hunter class shooters think about this . As you look at the links think about the future of hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle markings and ask your self would the use of these reticles put the users of a 6 mil dot scope at a disadvantage, if so talk to your club people and lets see if we can get some things changed to make hunter class a fair class for all shooters and not have to spend a fortune on scopes just to compete .Chris Berry please do not lock this post like you did my other post, I would like to get some feed back from club members or new shooters thinking about getting into the sport on this subject. ... ch&imgrc=_ ... w&tbm=isch ... us-vision/ This is what Hunter class has become ,This is what it use to be . but still every yard marked . To me the flip up stick on guide photo tells the story of the turret adjustment being transferred to the reticle . I think something like this with a 6 mil dot limit that should cover all distances be the limit Mildots only no dashes for 1/2 mildot but just mildots to cover the 10 to 55 yard targets distances . ... ft-010.jpg Is it just me or does anyone else think this would be a fair thing to do .

Re: Hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle marking

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:09 pm
by Scotchmo
"What are your thoughts on unlimited marking on reticles and marked yardages on the parallax wheel and power of the zoom ."

1st part, unlimited markings on the reticle -
I think it's fine. Limiting scopes to 4 or 6 dots per quadrant would limit choices. I use Leapers/UTG scopes. They are relatively low priced. They all have 9 dots per quadrant. A good reticle can help, though there has not really been a race to get the best reticle in AAFTA Hunter Division.

2nd part, marked yardages on parallax wheel -
No other HFT organization allows ranging by focusing. AAFTA Hunter Division allows it. In FT there is an ongoing search to get the best focus range finding. In AAFTA only, many have an ongoing search to get a scope with the best focus range finding at 12x. AAFTA Hunter Division is really more like "FT lite". It's not really HFT. Accept that and it makes things less confusing.

"If a shooter has a standard 6 mil dot scope how much of a disadvantage does he or she have shooting against a reticle filled with cross sections that cover every yard from 10 to 55 ."

Not much of a disadvantage. For my 18fpe gun with a 12x scope, I only use the first two dots for holdover from 10 to 55 yards. Intermediate hash marks could help some but it's easy enough to split the mil-dots into 1/2, 1/4 or even 1/10 with practice. ... ft-010.jpg
The holdover shown on that scope cap would indicate that the scope was mounted very high. That's why they are spread out over 10+ mil-dots. Most 12x shooters will only use 2 or 3 mil dots for holdover.

Re: Hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle marking

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:35 pm
by rws45user
Thanks Scotchmo. So you think the hunter class should not be set at a level playing field in the AAFTA shoots ,so the person your shooting against could have a advantage and your okay with that . Your right about the scope height on the photo its 4.54 inches. Its set up that way for a reason and if you look at the mil dots and how the yardage lines up you can see why . The way AAFTA have it set up its like they want a who's got the better toys will win class and not really a true level playing field class like hunter classes usually are in most other sports . Do you know why they went with this way of thinking to limit somethings and not all . Is there a class that has limits on things so all shooters are equal and not have this better toy wins thing going on so you can tell who's the better shooter instead of who's got more money to spend . Should I be looking into other HFT organizations to find this kind of fairness between shooters . I would like to be able to know the setup I go with is going the be the same as the person I'm shooting against especially a class called hunter class. I can under stand a free for all in unlimited class because you know its a free for all but Hunter class means all thing equal for all shooters . Hunter class means every aspect of the equipment is equal . Its a limited class with all aids being equal . When you start adding unlimited aspects your really in a unlimited class again .

Re: Hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle marking

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:52 pm
by Scotchmo
In HFT, there is no limit on scope selection. The only restriction is that you can't touch your scope once the match starts.

In AAFTA Hunter Division(class), there is also no limit on scope selection. But, you can make scope adjustments for each shot. You just can't adjust the turrets. Or turn the magnification over 12x.

The unfortunate side affect of the AAFTA allowances is that some go to effort and expense in order to find a scope that will range find well at 12x. The range finding benefits of even the high dollar scopes at 12x are marginal.

Individual scope selection may not be equal, but it is fair.

Even a cheap scope, if you take advantage of every range finding technique***, is good enough to win in AAFTA Hunter Division.

*** - eyeballing, parallax adjustment, bracketing, etc.

Re: Hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle marking

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:44 am
by rws45user
Thanks Scotchmo. I guess I'm just going to get the best scope I can for the money I can afford and just go out and have fun and not worry about it . I'm just use to the archery hunter classes where they make sure things are equal and this set of rules just didn't seen right . And I guess someone having more aim points to go by isn't that big of a deal to most shooters . I mainly shoot long range with my other air rifle so even a small amount of space between the dots makes a big difference where you hit so thats what got me thinking about the disadvantages of fewer marking compared to a reticle filled with them .

Re: Hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle marking

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:11 am
by Lonnie Smith
Spend as much as you want to..... The 12x rule and holdover/under sighting rules keeps it fair. I will put my $125 Simmons Whitetail up against any side wheeled Hubble turned down to12x with a custom mapped reticle any day of the week. There is no appreciable advantage within the HFT parameters.In fact many of the more expensive scopes don't lend themselves as well to HFT.

My advice is always buy what you can afford and like to use ..... have fun. :)

Re: Hunter class and the use of unlimited reticle marking

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:04 pm
by rws45user
Thanks, Lonnie Smith , Your right Lonnie thats good advise and thats what I'm going to do . I guess if your into getting the newest and best things on the market to try to gain a edge over everyone else and thats what you like to do then I guess I should say go for it .
I have always liked beating other shooters with my less expensive equipment . There's nothing better than having a person you just beat that has a top of the line setup and want the judges to check your equipment to see if I have gained a unfair advantage while looking at my 45 dollar gun laying next to his 1,000 gun and have the audacity to imply I might have a advantage .
This is a true story . Back in the mid 80 I use to shoot a lot of 10 meter air pistol matches And my first gun was the Daisy 717 that I still have today and it still shoots great . I got it at my local hardware story for 40 dollars because when they took it out of the box and the cocked it it didn't hold any air so it had a bad seal ,so I ask if they would sale it as is and I would take my changes with it so I got it put a new seal in it and started practicing every night for 2 hours in the basement before I went to bed . I got to where I could keep all 5 shots in the 9 ring and 10 ring . So I went to my first match ever . They put me in a unclassified class . I think the highest class was a Expert class . And I ended up with a highest score over all of all classes, I was in the high 500 's out of a 600 possible and it pissed him off to get beat by a unclassified shooter with a daisy 717 . He was using a FWB Model 2. He asked to see my gun and he took it to the judges I didn't know at the time why but as I stood there watching them do what I later found out was a trigger weight pulling test and of course being a 717 daisy with a not adjustable trigger It was reading about 3 pounds If I remember right . But the best part was when the judges and other people that had gathered around to watch They all started laughing at him and most of them telling him he got schooled was the best part . To make matter even worse I wanted to have his gun checked since he wanted mine checked and his was 500 gm less than a pound . That just got every one going at him again . He never did say good shooting to me or anything the rest of the day .
So your right I'm just going to get a scope I can afford and do the best I can with it and just have fun .
I really did want to use the single cross hair scope I have had for years back in the mid 80's . Its a 3x9x50 Tasco made in Japan, It was back when tasco was making the scopes for the military or I should say they were having them made . The Glass on it is unbelievably clear not like the tasco 3x9x50 scopes they sale now , but it only has one cross hair and I have found out you can't use a movable base to keep the cross hair where you want them .
Its worked out good for me because my wife gave me the go ahead to get another scope :D This time I'm getting one with some mildots . If the class I want to shoot in wants it to be a hold over /hold under type shoot I think have aiming points all over the reticle would take most all of the guess work out of it and be defeating the purpose of the class and eventually end up with so many reticle marking your ending up being more accurate than adjusting your turrets because turrets don't always go to the same place every time like a marking on the reticle would .
As times goes on and reticles get better and better using your turrets would be a disadvantage instead of a advantage that some people think that it is and they may be right for now but I can see that changing .
What they can do with reticles is amazing . and from 10 to 55 yards who's going to use turrets in any class . I might be wrong but I think its all ready starting to head that way and the only reason people would use a turret adjustment is to go out to distances below the last reticle marking .
Do you think I'm correct about this Lonnie. Do you see reticles being so good that people are going to rely on the reticle marking instead of there turrets to get them on target as far as FT shooting goes . Or am I way off base .