Kneeling roll allowed?

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Kneeling roll allowed?

Postby wx4p » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:34 pm

I see dedicated kneeling rolls (as might be used for 3P) used occasionally at local matches and was considering giving one a try. However, looking over the Handbook I see that the wording was changed back in 2013:

2012:
--The ‘bum bag’ or kneeling roll may be placed under the instep of the supporting foot if desired.

2013 & onward
--A legal seat may be used to support the rear foot and/or ankle, provided that the foot and knee have contact with the ground.

Does mean that 3P type kneeling rolls are not allowed? (Unless I use it as a seat :lol: )

Thanks,
Danny
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Re: Kneeling roll allowed?

Postby Bob Dye » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:30 pm

Good catch and interesting question...

IMO, a "legal seat" is not sufficient to cover ALL divisions... in Hunter Class, a SMALL minority of shooters use a bum bag as a "seat" that could also be used as instep support. But the majority of shooters use a "bucket" or some such, which obviously can't be used as a "legal seat" while kneeling. (One can't turn a "legal" Homer bucket on it's side and drape the ankle over it and satisfy the requirement that both foot (toe) and knee touch the ground (unless that someone wears a size 48 shoe).

In Hunter Class, I have (occasionally) used a 4-5" diameter deadfall tree log for instep support. But I would not want to sit on it.

I think the one constant that applies for all classes is the requirement that both toe and knee touch the ground. If your ankle can fit over a 3P roll and touch both knee and toe to the ground, I think you are good to the rules.

Although I think the term "legal seat" is overly complicated, and begs the question as you have phrased it. The sentence could use some clarification to simply say, "Support may be used..." instead. Just my opinion, of course.
Last edited by Bob Dye on Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Kneeling roll allowed?

Postby wx4p » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:39 pm

Thanks Bob, your interpretation makes sense to me but hope to get a ruling from the Board as well.
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Re: Kneeling roll allowed?

Postby Leo Duran » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:11 pm

wx4p wrote:2013 & onward
--A legal seat may be used to support the rear foot and/or ankle, provided that the foot and knee have contact with the ground.

Does mean that 3P type kneeling rolls are not allowed? (Unless I use it as a seat :lol: )

Thanks,
Danny


My understanding is that whatever is used (be it a kneeling roll or something else) must comply with what may be considered a 'legal seat' according to specific Division rules. If you then examine Division rules, you'll find that:
1) For Open and WFTF the restriction is 6" in height, so I would interpret that to mean that is not illegal to seat on a 'kneeling roll' provided that it does not exceed 6" in height... Thus it follows that a 'kneeling roll' that does not exceed 6" in height may be used as support for Kneeling shots.
2) For Hunter there's no height restriction, so following the same logic that would mean you could use a 'kneeling roll' without height restrictions.

How's that?
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Re: Kneeling roll allowed?

Postby wx4p » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:10 pm

That seems like the perfect explanation of the reference to legal seat.

Thanks Leo!
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